In this interview, Colleen Harkin appeared on The Rita Panahi Show Sky News Australia to discuss the IPA’s research on welcome to country.
All media posted onto the IPA website are directly related to the promotion and dissemination of IPA research.
Below is a trancript of the interview.
Rita Panahi:
Joining me now for more on this is News Corp senior writer Patrick Carlyon and Institute of Public Affairs Research Fellow Colleen Harkin. Patrick, I’ll start with you. Why can’t Pauline Hanson have this bill tabled? What is taboo about this topic?
Patrick Carlyon:
Well, I think every politician actually came out to bag her for this. It was never going to get up, but Pauline Hanson did get exactly what she wanted. She’d got attention brought to this issue, and ironically, it was from the activist senators from Faruqi, Payman and Thorpe who actually made it headlines by being so angry about it. I mean, you sort of got to laugh at the irony of that, don’t you?
Rita Panahi:
They did. Those MPs certainly had a go. But Colleen so did labour and coalition MPs. Now, there are a number of countries around the world that have banned full face coverings, and we’re not talking about backward countries here. We’re talking about countries like France, Belgium, Denmark. Why can’t we even discuss this issue here?
Colleen Harkin:
My understanding is there are 24 countries who have banned the burka. Look, we’ve seen a significant rise in support for One Nation. I think this is part of the reason why is that Pauline Hanson is prepared to have those hard conversations. We do need a national conversation debate about social cohesion, about integration and Australian values. And to your point, Patrick, it is the irony that the very people who wanted to squash it, are the people who’ve given it the oxygen. They want objecting to banning the burka, and yet they’ve banned Pauline from wearing it. That is an irony.
Rita Panahi:
I think those images, though… I know she’s done it before and it’s exact same burka. She kept it in her office all these years, but it’s just iconic. That image of her on the floor of the Parliament with the burka, with the stockings and the heels visible. I just think those images are going to remain for many years.
Patrick Carlyon:
It’s creepy. It looks creepy.
Rita Panahi:
Well, this is the thing. I mean, I’m someone who escaped from an Islamist country, and even in that Islamist country, burkas were not commonplace, but it is a tool of oppression. It is used to subjugate women and the fact that we’ve got parliamentarians from all sites of politics running away from this discussion, not even having the discussion, never mind the security issue. The women’s rights issue, Colleen, where has that gone? Why aren’t these women concerned about the fact that we’ve got women in this country who are subjugated even here and they’re forced to wear the burka or other full face coverings? It’s a cultural imperative amongst some of them, and it is not commonplace. Most Muslim women do not wear burkas or niqabs or even hijabs in the West.
Colleen Harkin:
I actually think it’s even a broader issue that women on the Left typically don’t support women. They talk about supporting women and women’s rights and all this kind of stuff, but when we’ve seen what’s happened to Senator Reynolds and what we’ve seen happen to Fiona Brown, I mean, where are the women supporting these two women? So the women on the Left cry all of these women’s rights, but when push comes to shove and their voice is required, they’re often absent.
Rita Panahi:
And when it comes to the treatment of Muslim women in particular, that’s when they really go into hiding because they’re just so terrified of having that debate. Now, Senator Payman doubled down on her criticism of Pauline Hanson after the Senate was suspended yesterday. This is what she had to say.
Fatima Payman:
Burka didn’t raise your rent. Pauline knows that the burka didn’t cause the housing crisis. Working people of every background are being squeezed from all sides, and Pauline Hanson wants you to blame brown people for it.
Rita Panahi:
It’s just a bizarre argument, Patrick. She’s defending the burka there, tying it to, as if it’s synonymous with being Muslim. It is not. And she’s injecting race into issues that don’t concern race. The housing issue there, she’s doing precisely what she’s accusing Pauline Hanson of doing, which is using race to further her political agenda.
Patrick Carlyon:
She’s conflating completely separate ideas and actually making a meal of it. I mean, a lot of what Senator Payman has said in terms of Muslim rights and women’s rights really is at odds with the realities in these countries all over the world. And she strikes me as very young and very naive. She’s not actually bringing anything to the conversation that actually drives it forward.
Rita Panahi:
This is typical of the Left though, to make everything about race. Muslims come from every shade under the sun. You got blonde Muslims, you have Asian Muslims, you’ve got black Muslims. It is not a race, it is a religion. And this isn’t really about Muslims or Islam. It’s about a fairly extreme interpretation, which is the full face coverings, which to me, dehumanises the women who wear them. You can’t see them. You can’t react and share normal human interaction with them because they’re hidden away from the world.
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah, they’re completely covered. I also noticed Senator Payman accusing it of being against the Constitution, which was crazy.
Patrick Carlyon:
Yes.
Colleen Harkin:
I don’t know if she actually intended to say that, but it is what she said. And [inaudible 00:05:28] now. I mean this argument that they keep twisting and turning is… I think what happens is that people get very tired of this sort of activist politician. We actually want serious conversations about what is happening to our social cohesion and what is happening to our standard of living in our way of life. And people are very concerned, and they do want it addressed with a level of integrity, not with people just screaming through the Chamber of Parliament.
Rita Panahi:
Now, the AFLW has come under fire for its Welcome to Country before the preliminary final between Carlton and Brisbane on Saturday night. Now, watch this. We’re just going to play a small part of it, but you’ve got Aboriginal elder Louisa Bonner here lecturing the crowd about racial justice and even promoting her own…
Louisa Bonner:
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Rita Panahi:
She sped read through that. I think she fitted about five minutes into her two and a half minute speech, but most of it was about a lecture about a national crisis caused by systematic racism and colonisation. Patrick, it’s like the AFLW wants to create more reasons for football fans not to watch. I mean, there are enough reasons already. This was just bizarre. I think even some of the players looked thoroughly confused.
Patrick Carlyon:
Look, it was a manifesto, wasn’t it? There was no place for it. I mean, that’s not a Welcome to Country, that actually is a distraction.
Rita Panahi:
It wasn’t very welcoming. I didn’t feel welcome.
Patrick Carlyon:
And she rushed through it. It was like she had a lot to say in a very short space of time. Look, I think a lot of people would’ve found that offensive. They’re watching to watch football and suddenly they’re being attacked and told off and berated for all these systemic problems in the country. There’s no place for it. And I blame the AFL. Why wasn’t that [inaudible 00:07:32]?
Rita Panahi:
Exactly. This is the AFL, Colleen, that every single club, the league itself lectured its fans about voting yes. It was on the wrong side of history. And I do remember during that referendum debate, Marcia Langton telling us that if the referendum didn’t pass, we would be spared these ceremonies. But here we are, they’re getting longer and more political.
Colleen Harkin:
Yeah. And look, I thought that close to three minutes was an appalling abusive privilege position. People go to watch sport to enjoy it, cheer along their team and have a good time. They don’t go to be lectured about allegations of systemic racism or to be promoted to somebody’s private business. I think most people who go willingly… A lot of Australians quite like the Welcome to Country now. They accept it or they tolerate it politely. So they just don’t… There is no place for this sort of badgering of people when they’re out to have a happy time supporting their team.
Rita Panahi:
Absolutely, and as I think Warren Mundine said, “If it was supposed to be a welcome to country, the welcome part was lost because it was-“
Colleen Harkin:
Not welcoming at all.
Rita Panahi:
Not at all. Now, let’s quickly touch on this. We’ve been talking about this for several weeks now. It seems Opposition leader Sussan Ley will likely avoid a leadership challenge as Parliament prepares to wrap up for the year. The Liberal leader face a lot of pressure over the summer break to improve the Coalition’s primary vote, which is sitting on 24%, a historic low. Patrick, Andrew Hastie is hot on her heels. They’re talking about perhaps March being the timeline she’s got to prove herself.
Patrick Carlyon:
Look, she’s limped to the end of the year like every Liberal party… Federally and state this year. They’ve forgotten to be Oppositions. They’ve been too busy fighting themselves. Let’s see what happens next year in terms of Andrew Hastie. I think she’s got to land a few punches as an Opposition leader in a way that they haven’t been able to. And look, that will become clearer as the year goes on. She’s in a very vulnerable position at this point.
Rita Panahi:
Absolutely. She was forced to abandon net zero. I think that’s going to work for her. I don’t know how well she can prosecute the case given. I think she likes net zero personally, but they also need to come to a position on immigration. That’s why Hastie left the team and they’re sitting on the back benches now. And again, when you talk about Hastie, you know precisely where he stands on these key issues.
Colleen Harkin:
Look, I think Sussan Ley did a good job calling out Chris Bowen on being a part-time minister with a part-time energy grid. I thought that was really good. That did land, which was great. They need to land more than just a one line in Parliament. To your point, Rita, I think that internally, the real issue is that the Liberal Party and other parties too, but particularly at the moment, the Liberal Party are looking for a Messiah to fix the problems. And the real issue is that how many people internally in the party are really genuinely committed to dropping net zero and how many aren’t? Because it’s the most important policy position to take. It affects everything in the economy. So you have to have a team that is united on that. And my personal view is that those who really can’t sell it should leave because it is the most important position to take because it’s the country’s security. It’s our energy. It’s everything relies on it.
Rita Panahi:
Absolutely.
Colleen Harkin:
And I had like to think that she’s committed to selling it or have to wait and see.
Rita Panahi:
I’m sure she’s committed to selling, and I just question if your own belief isn’t in it. You’re being a salesman. You’re not actually articulating a position you believe in deeply and think is best for the country. Now, before you go, Senator Hanson obviously is Pauline Hanson got most of the attention yesterday, but Senator Lidia Thorpe also made a speech and aired some grievances.
Lidia Thorpe:
I’d be putting my head down in shame too, Minister. Shame. You have not even thought about this.
Rita Panahi:
She accused Labour of siding with the opposition and ignoring the input of activist bodies. But it’s a bold new look that had folks commenting. And by folks, I mean me. I don’t know if I just saw, I looked at her and I saw Kim from Kath and Kim. It’s obvious she’s channelling Kim. And to give the senator some credit, she has a sense of humour about this. She tweeted, “I’m not a housewife, I’m a hornbag.” In response to my post. “Two staunch icons. Thanks, Rita, I’d usually say the Sky News mob are a pack of,” we can’t say that, but that’s a line from Kath and Kim. “But you are getting something right for once.” Well, there you go. I mean, what can you say about the good senator? She has a sense of humour and that should be applauded.
Patrick Carlyon:
I think this is great too. Public figures who fundamentally oppose each other on pretty much everything can actually come together for a laugh. I think there should be more of it.
Rita Panahi:
And I like that she’s proud of looking like Kim because she’s a hornbag, Kim. She’s an iconic figure in Australian television.
Colleen Harkin:
Well you know you’ve made it Rita when Lidia Thorpe is commenting on your posts, like, whoa-
Rita Panahi:
I didn’t tag her in that. So I don’t know how she saw it. Someone obviously sent it to her. But yeah, no hard feelings. Patrick Carlyon and Colleen Harkin, thanks for your time.
Colleen Harkin:
Thank you.
This transcript Colleen Harkin on The Rita Panahi Show Sky News Australia from 25 November 2025 has been edited for clarity.
