From COVID to Hepatitis to Measles, RFK Jr. Is Gutting Vaccine Science: An Ex-CDC Expert Speaks Out
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AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show looking at how Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is upending immunization policies in the United States. CNN is reporting the Food and Drug Administration is considering putting a “black box” warning on COVID-19 vaccines, a warning reserved only for drugs that can cause death. CNN reports the plan has shocked medical experts.
This comes a week after Kennedy’s handpicked advisers on a federal vaccine panel voted against universal hepatitis B shots for newborns, recommending the vaccine only for infants born to people who test positive for the virus. The announcement reverses 35 years of CDC guidance that all newborns receive the hepatitis B vaccine within 24 hours of birth. Officials at the American Academy of Pediatrics said the move could be, quote, “devastating to children’s health and public health,” unquote.
On Thursday, Michigan Democratic Congresswoman Haley Stevens filed articles of impeachment against Kennedy, saying his actions have endangered public health and gutted lifesaving medical research.
We’re joined right now by a former top vaccine expert at the CDC who resigned in June. Dr. Fiona Havers is joining us from Atlanta, Georgia, where she’s now an adjunct professor at — adjunct associate professor at Emory School of Medicine.
Welcome back to Democracy Now! Thank you so much for being with us. Dr. Havers, if you can start off by talking about hepatitis? Talk about what’s at stake and what exactly RFK Jr. has done.
DR. FIONA HAVERS: Sure. So, for the last 30 years, the U.S. has recommended that every newborn be vaccinated against hepatitis at birth. And this is because you can — infants can acquire hepatitis if their mother is infected with hepatitis B at birth or by caregivers during their infancy or childhood. If you’re infected with hepatitis B as a child or an infant, you have a 90 — more than a 90% chance of developing a lifelong, incurable infection that can lead to liver failure, cirrhosis or liver cancer and potentially death. And since the early ’90s, every infant has been recommended to receive this at birth.
And this is targeted at mothers who are — you know, infants that were born to mothers who are infected. But in the United States, when they only recommended that infants who were born to mothers who were known to have infection were vaccinated, there were many infants that were missed. Also, infants can be infected by caregivers later on.
So, what they voted last week was to remove that recommendation, a recommendation that has been responsible for essentially eliminating hepatitis B in children in the United States. And this was the first major policy change that this Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has — the first major change that’s likely to have major public health implications for U.S. children since RFK Jr. fired the entire committee in June and replaced it with a number of people who have anti-vaccine stances.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Dr. Havers, these are all — the CDC doesn’t mandate vaccination; it only has recommendations. Can you talk about the misinformation that’s often spread by vaccine skeptics who claim there’s a federal vaccine mandate for children?
DR. FIONA HAVERS: Yeah. So, these are all just recommendations, and it’s supposed to be an evidence-based, science-based recommendation. And historically, there was a very sort of rigid, sort of strict framework, where it was — the evidence was very carefully reviewed, risks and benefits were weighed, and then a recommendation was made. But for all of these vaccines, parents will have conversations with their provider, they can talk about the risks and the benefits, and informed consent is given. This is not — there is no sense in which any of the recommendations coming from this advisory body or from the CDC are mandates. And so, this change is just basically casting doubt on what was a — on the universal hepatitis B vaccine recommendation, casting doubts on its safety, on how well it works and how important it is.
And I think that what we’re going to see is parents are going to be confused. We’re going to see probably fewer babies being vaccinated at birth. And we’re going to see potentially tragic outcomes, which we may not know about for, you know, a decade or two, because often babies who have hepatitis B are asymptomatic for years, until they show up with advanced liver failure when they’re young teenagers are in their twenties or later in life. So, I think that this has potential for real tragic implications.
But again, this administration keeps talking about vaccine mandates and informed consent, but parents always have a choice about whether or not to vaccinate their child. And we know that parents want to do the right thing, but this administration is causing a lot of confusion and is using, basically, the CDC to spread misinformation now about vaccines.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Could you talk also about the measles outbreak? The CDC is acknowledging as many as 1,800 cases of measles across the United States just this year, an illness that’s supposed to have been eliminated.
DR. FIONA HAVERS: Yeah, no, measles has been raging in the United States for the last 12 months. We have multiple outbreaks going on in several states. And, you know, we’ve had more cases this year than in a very long time. Measles was officially eliminated in the United States in the early 2000s, but if this — if these outbreaks are not under control by the end of January, the United States will officially lose its measles elimination status per the WHO. And this is a huge embarrassment. I mean, it’s an embarrassment for this administration that they’re unable to control a disease that we’ve had an effective vaccine for for decades, that was essentially eliminated. But this is a direct result of the decades of misinformation that RFK Jr. and the anti-vaccine movement have been spreading about the safety and efficacy of vaccines.
In addition, I think CDC and other public health agencies have been hamstrung by this administration. I think the resources haven’t been mobilized to address the measles outbreaks, coming out with very strong messaging about vaccines being the most effective way of preventing measles from spreading, and the importance of vaccines. I think, you know, basically, this administration has failed to respond appropriately to this measles outbreak, all of these measles outbreaks, and have failed to get them under control.
AMY GOODMAN: And can you respond to this latest news today that the FDA is weighing a black box warning on COVID vaccines, which is reserved for, you know, vaccines that or any drug that causes death? What exactly does this mean? I mean, you have studies showing that the COVID vaccine saved, what, something like 20 million deaths around the world. Has this alarmed you today?
DR. FIONA HAVERS: I mean, it’s very alarming. I think this administration, particularly RFK Jr., has come out very hard against COVID vaccines since the — you know, since they were first rolled out during the pandemic. They have saved millions of lives, but this administration is solely focused on possible safety concerns. You know, I think they also have said that they have linked COVID vaccines to pediatric deaths. And we do know that in — serious adverse events can occur with vaccines, you know, one in a million vaccines. I don’t know what the actual rates are, but, you know, serious adverse events can occur with vaccines.
But this administration has not shown any data about how they have — you know, what information they used to show that COVID-19 vaccines have been linked to any deaths. They haven’t been transparent about it. They haven’t given any information about how they came to the conclusion that COVID vaccines do cause deaths, and, you know, with this lack of transparency and only focusing on the risks of vaccines, and not talking about the fact that, you know, tens of millions of children received these vaccines safely.
You know, millions of deaths were prevented, as well as millions of hospitalizations and serious adverse events were prevented. There was a report that did just come out from CDC yesterday showing that vaccines, the COVID-19 vaccines, were 76% effective in preventing urgent care and emergency department visits in young children. And that was a great report to see. But, you know, that was data showing that these vaccines are effective in preventing severe illness, which still occurs from COVID.
I’m very concerned that this is coming out right as we’re going into respiratory virus season, because I think, you know, tens of thousands of Americans die from diseases like COVID and influenza every year, and further undermining confidence in these vaccines, I think, could lead to an increase in vaccine-preventable deaths this year.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Fiona Havers, talk about your decision in June to quit, to leave the CDC, and then the continuous reports we’re hearing about the chaos within the overall agency under RFK Jr.
DR. FIONA HAVERS: Yeah, so, I was — I had worked in CDC for 13 years, always on vaccine-preventable diseases. I had been scheduled to present COVID hospitalization data to this advisory committee, but when he fired the advisory committee, I knew that he was basically doing a hostile takeover of the CDC vaccine policy process by firing this committee that makes the vaccine policy recommendations for the United States. And I, basically, couldn’t, as a physician, as a scientist, present to this committee and legitimize them, because they are not a legitimate committee. They are not using evidence, and they are not using science.
And I think that, essentially, RFK Jr. is using his position as HHS secretary to — now is, like, using CDC as a megaphone to promote his anti-vaccine views. And I didn’t feel like I could be part of that. And I think, you know, CDC, my colleagues that are still there, doing the work that they can and getting good information out when they can and pushing back when they can, I think I admire them, but I think that the agency has essentially — the leadership has been, essentially, removed or pushed out. Thousands of experts have either quit or been fired. And RFK Jr. has basically taken over CDC and is using it to advance anti-science views. And public health across America has been weakened in all respects, not just when we’re talking about infectious diseases or vaccine-preventable diseases.
AMY GOODMAN: Dr. Fiona Havers, we want to thank you for being with us, adjunct associate professor at Emory School of Medicine, former CDC official with an expertise in infectious diseases and vaccines. She resigned from the agency in June.
Coming up, “Watched, Tracked, and Targeted: Life in Gaza under Israel’s all-encompassing surveillance regime.” Back in 20 seconds.
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AMY GOODMAN: “Al-Ras ’Aly,” “Heads Held High,” performed by the New York City Palestinian Youth Choir here in the city.
