‘IT: Welcome to Derry’ showrunner reveals Episode 5’s Matty/Pennywise twist was originally going to be Mike Hanlon’s ‘IT: Chapter Two’ fate

There are a ton of wild twists and shocking reveals in IT: Welcome to Derry Episode 5 on HBO, but perhaps the most devastating one has to do with the boy whose disappearance kicked this story off in the first place.

**Spoilers for IT: Welcome to Derry Episode 5, now streaming on HBO Max**

Matty Clements (Miles Ekhardt) appears early on in IT: Welcome to Derry, shellshocked from his time trapped in Pennywise’s (Bill Skarsgård) clutches and desperate for connection. When the new “Loser’s Club” of Lilly Bainbridge (Clara Stack), Ronnie Grogan (Amanda Christine), Will Hanlon (Blake Cameron James), Rich Santos (Arian S. Cartaya), and Marge Truman (Matilda Lawler) discover him hiding in their secret base, their relief soon turns into horror. You see, Matty describes Pennywise’s lair and reveals that Phil (Jack Molloy Legault) is still alive and trapped there.

This gives Lilly and the gang the idea that they need to go back for Phil. They convince a reluctant Matty to lead them through the sewers. Matty obliges. The kids (hilariously) pop Mrs. Bainbridge’s anti-anxiety meds for a layer of armor against Pennywise’s scares. We finally get a group of plucky kids with flashlights hunting Pennywise in the sewers.

However, the cruel twist is that Matty is actually dead. He’s been a manifestation of Pennywise this whole episode, designed to lure the children to their deaths. Our middle school-aged heroes manage to escape, this time, but are left understandably horrified.

IT: Welcome to Derry executive producer and co-showrunner Jason Fuchs revealed to DECIDER that the big Matty/Pennywise wasn’t initially conceived for the HBO show. Instead, it was concept that he, Andy Muschietti, and Barbara Muschietti were thinking about using on iconic Loser’s Club member Mike Hanlon (Isaiah Mustafa).

“So when I was working on IT: Chapter Two, there was a version of that script where Mike Hanlon — who has obviously been guiding our adult Losers the entire time — eventually takes them down into the sewers, takes them down into It’s sanctuary, where they find Mike Hanlon’s body,” Fuchs said. “And you realize that the Mike Hanlon we were with the whole journey of IT: Chapter Two was a manifestation of It.”

Ultimately, though, Fuchs and the Muschietti siblings decided the idea wouldn’t work for the film because it was too different from Stephen King’s canon.

“We thought, ‘Oh, it’s just too much of a departure from the book. We want to be closer to where the story beats.’ And so that went away,” Fuchs said. “Then when we started talking about the journey of the show, and specifically Episode 5, I remember us talking and going, ‘Wait, this is an idea that might actually have found its time and its moment.’ Matty as the guide, Matty in that context, makes a lot more sense.”

Fuchs went on to explain why the Matty twist could only work on television.

“You have more opportunities to take riskier swings. You have the opportunity to take departures that you couldn’t in the films because it all really is fresh,” Fuchs said. “Now we’re using pieces of the book, but then extrapolating and sort of inventing from there. So that was that moment was a long time coming, and it was very cool to see it real.”